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Friday July 27th, 2001
Chet Atkins 1996: A work in progress
By Dave Kyle for
Editor's Note: This interview originally appeared in Vintage Guitar's June, 1996 issue. Chet was 71 years old and had just released Almost Alone. Our thanks to VG and writer Dave Kyle.
To do an interview once with Chet Atkins is a very special treat for anyone whos into guitars. After doing my original article in August of 1995, I just assumed it would be my last. Then our illustrious publisher (hows that for kissing up?), Alan Greenwood, called with a great idea. He asked Do you think Chet would be up for an annual interview with VG, like were doing with Les Paul? The timing was perfect when I called about interviewing him, as Chet was just about to release his latest effort, Almost Alone, on Sony. We met again in his office on Nashvilles Music Row, which owes as big a debt to Chet as anyone for its growth over the past 40 years or so.
I know many of you are only interested in the guitar-related stories that go along with this living legend. But this time, Ive added a few outside questions, if only to help people understand what a nice guy he is. For example, in the first interview, I made the foolish mistake of trusting the batteries in my recorder. When I got home, I found to my horror that even though they were brand new, they were run down! The machine had recorded, but at a very slow rate of speed, which was not understandable to the ear. Yikes! Well, being a true improviser, I copied the whole tape over to my multitrack recorder and sped it up a couple of times to bring the speed up to where I could transcribe it. I told Chet about it as he was crawling under his desk to find an outlet for the wall wart on my recorder. He laughed and dismissed my apologies as unnecessary.
That was embarrassing enough. Then, about 20 minutes into the interview, I was again horrified at realizing the tape was not moving! What a dunce I felt like. Well, Chet checked out the machine and got it working, then offered to start over. I suggested that maybe I could just write down some things from memory, then have him look it over and change whatever was incorrect. He agreed, and we did just that. He went to the trouble of re-typing a lot of what I sent, since I had failed to double-space my typing, allowing him to write between the lines. He also wrote several things out by hand that he wanted to add or subtract. I wonder how many other stars of todays music would take time out to do the same? Just an example of what a nice guy Chet Atkins has been to me. Hope you enjoy the interview!
I just heard a great story about you. Gregg Allman says he went to school with your daughter, Merle. Yes, they did go to school together.
Have you ever heard this story? I dont think so.
Well, he says that he and Merle used to walk home from school together and when theyd get to your house, you were always coming out for the mail in your bath robe. So Gregg figured you were without a job. He went and told his mother that maybe they should try to go around the neighborhood and take up a donation for you, since you obviously were out of work!
(laughing) Well, that was mighty nice of him! Years later, my daughter took me out to see them (the Allman Joys) at some little joint. I remember, I was so impressed with Duanes coordination. He, I believe, was playing an archtop electric, probably a Gibson L-5 or something, and he dashed off a couple of fast arpeggios that sure got my attention. I have never been able to play up to the speed of my satisfaction, so Im often put in an enviable position. There are so many fine players around today.
The last time we talked, you made mention of Del Vechio guitars. A lot of people dont know about those and have asked me about them. Can you shed a little light on where they came from and what they are, exactly.
The guitars are a resonator type, and come from Sao Paulo, Brazil. You often see them in the bands of Carmen Miranda in those old Hollywood musicals. No doubt about it, they were certainly made popular in this country by Nato Lima, of Los Indios Tabajaras, after their hit Maria Elena in the early 60s. RCA Records brought them here from South America and recorded them again. By that time, Nato was playing the Del Vecchio. One of the greatest moments of my life was hearing the sustain and quality of that instrument. I knew their producer [Herman Diaz], and he put me in touch with them. After some time, Nato sold me his for around 300 bucks. He made a little profit, but I would have paid $30,000.
They are of very bad quality, but the sound is there. Sometimes the bridges must be moved a quarter of an inch or so to intonate it. Frets must be re-set and so on. Concerning that first one, I had an ebony fret board installed, along with a [truss] rod in the neck. About 20 or so years ago, a friend brought a better one to me from Brazil, so the first one I gave to Earl Klugh, one of my favorite friends. And what a player! I should tell you that Paul McGill, here in Nashville, is building a fine resonator-type guitar for Earl and a lot of others. They are of the finest workmanship. I have one of those.
Youve often cited Django Reinhardt as an influence, did you go see him live at one time?
He was in Chicago, with Duke Ellington in 46. I was out of work and spent my last dollar just to hear him play. I was in the very back of the Civic Opera House, I believe it was. He was playing some kind of electric, and I remember he would play some fine lick and the band members would yell and encourage him on. I was so proud for him, because I have always kind of stood in awe of black players. From Blind Blake, on up to Coltrane.
Years later, Dr. Pritcher, president of the Chet Atkins Appreciation Society, gave me a copy of part of that Chicago performance. What a nice gift! Anyway, I journeyed backstage, hung around and got his autograph. D. Reinhardt he wrote. I have since heard thats all he could write. I sure wanted to do some finger picking for him, Ill bet he wouldve loved it. But it never happened.
I have written a song about that afternoon, and someday Ill record it. I sure had, and still have, a lot of hero worship for Django. Man, he taught the world to play great lines with perfection. I still have that autograph. Maybe some day Ill auction it for charity at one of the Chet Atkins Appreciation Society (CAAS) meetings (every July in Nashville).
You have a new album out, tell us a little about it.
Its called Almost Alone and I am alone on most of it. Its mostly my guitar and my big foot.
Your foot? You mean like John Hammond does?
(laughing) No, more like John Lee Hooker. Way back there in time, I remember hearing him singing, playing his guitar and patting his foot on plywood or something. That was another exiting musical moment for me. You know, it gets kind of lonely playing solo guitar. So on the rhythm things, I pat my foot on an RA 15 [Electro Voice] microphone. It comes off sounding like a bass drum or side stick. I use that effect on Big Foot, playing the old DAngelico.
There is another tune on the album called Waiting On Suzy B [Suzy Boggus]. I did an album with her a while back (Simpatico). Shes always late for appointments. I wrote the tune one day while waiting for her. Later on, I refined it and I believe it is one of the best things Ive written. A little old fashioned maybe, but it might have been a hit 30 years ago. Randy Howard, a great fiddle player in town who plays down at the Station Inn with Cathy Chiavila, plays on Sweet Alla Lee. Pat Bergeson gave me ideas for a chorus and an ending on Jam Man.
Is that the one you do use in your show, using the Jam Man?
Yeah. I lay down a little rhythm, about 12 bars or so, then go back and layer on different parts. In the show, I get it going, then walk off the stage and let it play itself. Its kind of fun to do.
Where did you record this album?
Mostly in my home studio. I have a 24-track operation and in between the air conditioner blowing and the rest of the noise, I did it. Also, I was having some renovation done to my house at the time and I had to kind of work between the hammering and sawing. As usual, I played through the old Standell amp and if the noise was too much, Id just turn up the volume on the amp.
What guitars did you use?
On most tunes, I played the Gibson nylon string guitar (Chet Atkins CE), the one with the flour-de-leis instead of a sound hole. Theyre no longer in production. I also used the Paul McGill resonator guitar for the overdub on You Do Something To Me. I used the [Gibson] Country Gentleman too, I think, and my Kirk Sand Guitar on a couple. Im also using this new guitar that Gibson made for me. Its called the Super 4000. Its a real nice guitar. Paul ([Yandell] put a floating pickup and pickguard on it for me.
Big Foot was played on the old DAngelico I purchased in 1950. I stopped playing that guitar when I went to Gretsch in 55. Anyway, I was telling Paul how I wished I had never changed it back to a rhythm instrument by having John replace the top. It finally dawned on me that I still have most of the parts, pickups and so on. Consequently, we put it in the condition it was in back in the 50s and it is one great guitar. A warning to Gibson, I wouldnt mind going back to it. (laughs) I believe you furnished Paul with the switch, right?
Yeah, I gave Paul the pickup switch for that guitar and found him the switch tip up in St. Louis last year! Its really neat to be a part of that guitars history.
I had a bunch of those at home but he never knew it when he got that from you.
How did you get hooked up with Kirk Sands guitars?
Lenny Breau. He used to tell me, Like man, Im going to have a guitar built with seven strings. He used a high A you know. And Kirk made him one while he was [in California]. I saw it and liked it. See, [Breau] had already given so much thought to this 7-string guitar that when he picked it up for the first time, he already knew how to play it. He said, Ive been rolling it over and over in my mind and this is what I want. And he truly was amazing. He could use that high A and get all kinds of stuff going.
After he died, I kind of kept in touch with Kirk to catch up on the latest news about [Breaus death] and one thing led to another. Finally, Kirk came to the CAAS meeting. I met him at John Knowles (writer/guitarist and curator of the Country Music Hall of Fame Library) house. [Sand] installed a piezo in one of my classical guitars and we got acquainted. I think he inquired about using a Gibson pickup that we were using in the CE Classic and I made a limited number available to him through Mike Voltz at Gibson.
Anyhow, I eventually ordered one of his nylon electrics with classically-braced top. I liked it and talked Gibson into working a deal with Kirk to use his design to manufacture a few. This is somewhat close to the way things evolved. Kirk has become a very good friend, and I think he and Jose Oribe are two of the finest luthiers around.
Youve played and recorded with so many of the greats, is there anybody out there that you personally would pay to go see?
Yeah, I remember telling [fiddle player] Mark OConnor that hes about the only person around that Id pay to go see. It was true. Id seen him on TV or something, and he just knocked me over, the way he played. Right now, Leo Kottke, Id pay to see him, Michael Hedges, I worked with him the other day. He was on a show I was on. People like Doyle Dykes, who is just an amazing finger picker, I think. Mostly because theyve all got something really different going, and I enjoy that. Pat Bergeson, who works with me some, I think hes a wonderful player. Got more licks!
He just told me he got the gig with Wynnona the other day!
He did, so he wont be working with me for two dates, then hell be back. But I understand shes going to tour for about two years, so hell be working with me sporadically, I guess.
When you tour in support of this new album, do you plan to do it alone?
Oh, Id take somebody with me probably, maybe a percussionist or something. What Ill probably do is some television to promote the album. Then go to California or New York to do some shows. Ill probably take a percussionist with me, to help me out, because it gets lonely, you know with one instrument.
I read a long time ago that you used to practice eight hours a day.
Some days I did. I always just played til I got tired, two or three hours, put it down and then maybe not play for two or three days. Thats the way I always did it. I guess that is a way to work up really great technique, just practice scales over and over, but that was somewhat boring to me, and I never did it. I would practice a lick for half a day, til I got it (laughing) like all guitar players. Id live with a guitar, you know, and take it with me everywhere. Id sit and have lunch with a guitar in my lap.
Ive awakened with a strange guitar, many a morning.
Oh yeah. Ive fallen - well, still fall asleep with a guitar in my hands. Back when I used to be so busy producing it was the only time I could practice, you know. It was so damned busy during the day, and Id go home and get a guitar and play and fall asleep. I was always worried, you know, afraid Id drop one and break it. I almost have broken a couple guitars that way, letting it slide out of my hand. I also practice down in my basement in a kind of high chair. Ive almost fallen asleep a couple of times, and I think, man, Im going to fall asleep and my heads going to hit the floor (laughing) or the guitars going to crack me in the head. So, I dont do that much anymore.
Is there one single piece of equipment that you feel really changed the world for guitar?
Well, the pickup, of course. The electric pickup. Since 1950, electric guitars have improved so very much, the Les Paul and Gretsch guitars made back in those days arent near the instruments they are now, the workmanship and pickups. I guess there are just so many more people now who can do woodwork and have learned from each other how to build superior instruments. Theyre so good now, I dont know how they can be improved very much, you know like the Strats and Les Pauls. And the Country Gentleman that Gibson makes is a very good guitar for an f-hole-type guitar.
The piezo electrics like I play, I think theres room for improvement in those, because the piezo is in the bridge. You get so many highs, youve got to EQ and EQ to get fundamental. Maybe somebody, someday will come up with a novel, great way to pick up the sound of a nylon string guitar. I remember years ago, I got the idea to get somebody to make a [nylon] string and put a metal core in the center. So I went to a patent lawyer here in town paid $25 and patented the idea. But when you do something like that, youve got to use it, or the patents run out. I think later on, Fender did that. They made some nylon strings that would pick up on an electric pickup.
Amps have gotten so much better. I remember years ago, I tried everything to get echo. Lawrence Hammond, of Hammond Organ fame, owned the patent on that spring reverb and he would let no one else use it. So I remember, I bought a cabinet once that had a hose in it about 50 feet long, and it had a speaker and a microphone on the other end (laughing) and you could get some slap-back with that. I tried that. But the amps have improved so very much. Amps and pickups. Theyve learned how to put more wire on the pickups and get more output.
My grandson (Jonathan Russell) gave me an old Epiphone Electar Zephyr for Christmas, because I saw one down where he works. I said, You know, I used to play in a cowboy band and a guy had one of those and I played through it all the time. So he found one of those and bought it for me. I fixed it up, put new electrolytics in it and re-wired a lot of it, because a lot of the wires had rotted, especially the AC wire! So I fixed it and boy, it added to the volume! I checked a lot of the capacitors when I got them out and three out of six capacitors, which are 40mf at 150 working volts, were bad. So when I replaced them, it added to the volume and it sounds pretty danged good. Its got a little hum from the inputs, but Im going to fix that. If I cant fix it, Im going to call Ray Butts (see VG 11/94) and get him to tell me whats going on. But I had a little problem with it, its had a battery in it. My grandson said itll operate on batteries or AC (laughing) and I thought that cant be, because it had two 41/2-volt batteries in it. So I called Ray, and he said the batteries are probably for bias for one of the tubes, and he was right. I bought a 9-volt battery and put it in there and it works just fine.
What does your grandson do over at Georgetown?
Hes an engineer. Its a place where they go from tape to digital disc. Hes just a kid, hes learning the trade. Hes a good boy, plays pretty good guitar. Hes hung around Pat [Bergeson]. He gave him a lesson or two.
It obviously runs in the family. Your nephew, John Burns, is a great player, too.
Yeah, John Burns is Jethro Burns son. People have told me hes a good rock and roll player. Ive never heard him play that much, frankly. Hes got a good reputation among people who have heard him play. Ive never been to a rock and roll show, you know. I went once to hear Eric Johnson, hes a good friend. I admire him a lot. But anyway, he did a rhythm & blues show here down on the river with B. B. and a bunch of people. I went out to hear his part, and he plays through three amps that looked about the size of refrigerators. But what got me was the bass drum was so loud, it would hit me in the chest. I thought, damn, Im going to have a heart attack from that. (laughs) I stuffed my ears full of napkins, so I dont want to go to any more rock and roll shows.
I was at that same show. Id always wanted to see B. B. King and that was my first chance.
Id been on shows with B. B., TV shows that is. Hes a different guitar player. He doesnt play chords, you know he just plays lead. Thats strange! I did a show with him one night. They gave him an outfit that had been rented, and the speaker cone was blown in it. I felt sorry for him so, hell, I tried to help him out. I just played rhythm for him mostly. Hes a fine fellow and deserves all the accolades he gets. He sure can sing, too.
Yeah, hes one of those guys, like you, with an instantly recognizable tone.
Well, I didnt know that I had that, but thanks! (laughs)
You mentioned earlier that you used an amp to record. Do you run an acoustic that way?
No, just the CE. Its a Standell that Ive used since about 1954 or 55. Its a Williamson circuit, which is a great circuit. It uses 807 transmitter tubes and its got a Lansing speaker in it thats no longer manufactured. Also, originally the speaker had a metal diaphragm in the cone, about two or three inches across, which produced the highs. Well I had to have it reconed because the cone was dragging years ago. So the guy put in a cone and a paper diaphragm, so it doesnt give off all those highs. You get an awful lot of fundamental with it. Its just a hell of an amp. Its really fragile, the components are on an aluminum chassis and its got a great big power transformer and output transformer on it and they sink down into that aluminium.
I remember when I played for President Kennedy. I dont know how I got that thing to Washington, but I did. We flew; I guess I carried it on the plane or something. I look at it now and think, damn, (laughing) how did I fly that around? And I remember it had some Jones plugs for the speaker and preamp that plugged into the amp, from the top to the bottom, and the damned Jones plug was always slipping out when we would perform.
When I played up there in Washington, I kept wondering, what if that Jones plug falls out? The stage hands were moving it around.
Ive had that happen. I played Milwaukee one time for 19,000 people. It was outside and there were a lot of famous people on the show. But I go out with my Butts amp [Echo Sonic], it had to have been about 1953 or 54 I guess, and I go out to play, plug in my guitar and its dead. They had unplugged the amp (laughing) and youve got to stand there in front of 19,000 people and wait for your amp to warm up. At that time, I was not as glib as I am now on stage. Now, I would just laugh and it wouldnt be any problem. But when that happened years ago, I went into a panic.
Tell us a little about this new Gibson, the Super 4000.
Last year, I went to Frankfurt, Germany, for them to a trade show and Henry [Juszkiewicz] told them to build me a guitar. Well, they built me a guitar on the style of a Super 400 and they call it a Super 4000. So, theyre going to put out a few of those. Ill show it to you. (Opening case) Its a little thinner than a Super 400 and its a beauty. It has mother of pearl [tuning] pegs. It had a different pickguard. Its just an acoustic, and Pauls been experimenting around with it. Its got a Bruce Bolen [floating] pickup on it and this pickguard, which is from another guitar Gibson builds. So theyll be different from this, theyll have some different features. I had them put some sound posts in the other day. Im going to start playing it and Im going to put a metal type bridge on it so itll sustain a little bit better.
You mentioned sound posts before, referring to your DAngelico. Do they go underneath the bridge like a fiddle?
Yeah, two of them. It cuts down on the feedback. It doesnt have much of an acoustic sound now (strumming) because of the sound posts, but it makes a better electric. Theyll do a little different tailpiece. This is the prototype. Its not exactly what the guitar will be like. Yeah, its nice. Itll probably be the most expensive guitar they put out.
Do you still use the same road setup?
On the road, I use a Music Man 112 RD. Its 50 watts with a 12-inch speaker. You know, Id like to take an amp with two twelves, or a 15-inch, but theyre so heavy. I have so much sympathy for those poor guys who load that stuff. And for my road manager, who has to lift it. Two speakers smooth out the sound, because speakers, if you look at a graph, the highs and lows have a lot of mountains and valleys. This is just conjecture on my part, but I think with two speakers, theyll be different from each other, so theyll smooth out the overall frequency response. Somebody can write in and tell me if Im right or wrong about that, but thats an idea I have and I believe its true.
So Paul and I both use the Music Man. Theyre not manufactured any more, but theyre around, you can find them. Ill tell you, I just accidently discovered that nylon string guitar sounds better through that amp than any amp Ive ever used. So I started using it, then Paul started using it and a lot of people buy them now and use them. I had a larger, 100-watt Music Man. Pauls got it now, but its so heavy. It doesnt sound as good to me as the 50-watt.
I wanted to ask you about the appearance you made on the short-lived Ralph Emery show on TNN, with James Burton and Albert Lee.
Yeah, you were out there, werent you? I wonder how hes doing.
(Ed. Note - James Burton had an accident on his Louisiana property last summer, breaking his ankle. While in the hospital, he asphyxiated, a-la Jimi Hendrix, and was found not breathing. No one knows how long he was out, but hes back and doing fine.)
He just called yesterday, hes doing well. Ill tell him you asked.
He has an apartment here and comes in to do some recording from time to time.
Youre into golf in a pretty big way too, arent you Chet?
I used to play a lot. I still play a little, but my handicap is way up. I had a tournament in Knoxville for about 10 years. Then we moved it to Calloway Gardens, down in Georgia. I dont like to do that. I dont like to call people and say will you play in my golf tournament? They wouldnt [solicit] in Knoxville very much, and in Calloway Gardens, they wouldnt hire somebody, so I just stopped it. Theyre a lot of fun, but as I said, I dont like to host one. I dont like all that attention on me. I like to go to other peoples tournaments. I dont like to travel out of Nashville for it too much. I go to Perry Comos tournament almost every year there in North Carolina, and Roy Clarks there in Ft. Lauderdale once in a while.
So are you a good golfer?
No. I didnt start playing golf till I was up into my thirties and thats too late. My back swings too short. I cant hit it. I really have to hit it well to get 200 yards. But I play from the old mans tee now, that helps (laughs). The seniors tee. Maybe you gain 15 or 20 yards or so.
I use half of a baseball grip and still slice.
Thats the horror of all golfers. I still dont know, when I go out and play, if Im going to hook or slice. Just go hit a few and see (laughing). Im not hip enough to know what causes me to slice or hook. I have to go out there and find out just by hitting a few balls.
Are you into photography too?
I used to be. I used to have a dark room for black and white. I enjoyed that, but its so much trouble you know. All those chemicals and working in the dark. And its time consuming. Like they said, I took her in the dark room, but nothing developed. Old joke (laughs) . She was only a photographers daughter, but oh how she was developed!
Whats new for you in the coming year?
Well, lets see, Im just playing shows around here and there. Ill be doing two more albums for Columbia/Sony. Ive got to decide what to do on those pretty soon and start to work.
I had heard rumors that you were thinking about doing a kind of Django-style album.
I almost did that when I did this album. I wrote a tune with Billy Ed Wheeler thats real good, I think, about Django. But you know, I dont play like him at all, and Im afraid people might expect me to play like him, and I cant. And its kind of difficult to adapt his tunes to fingerstyle picking. There are a few where it can be done, but I think they lend themselves more to gypsy-style playing.
So I dont know what Ill do next. Something that will be interesting, I hope, and will let me stretch out a little bit and compel me to learn a few new licks. If I could remember all the licks Ive learned in my career, Id be a hell of a guitar player! But you know how it is, somebody teaches you something and then you forget it in three weeks. Ive had people come to me backstage and play things and Id say, where did you get that? [They would say] Off of your record.
Ive made so damn many albums, I dont remember. And when I make records, I just improvise, and I never do it again. Well, they copy that stuff and remember what you did and can play it over and over. Paul [Yandell] can do that. He can tell me how I started every tune, and how I ended it. I sure cant. I cant remember anything about it. And I dont like to hear myself. Pauls a really good finger picker, and he plays other stuff well, too. As I say, hes really an authority on what I have recorded.
Anything else Ive left out about the new release that youd like to add?
No, its just the best I can do at this point in my life. I record solos a lot, on DAT some, and on tape, and I discovered some solos the other day that I recorded several years ago, and I thought, boy that wouldve been nice on the album (laughs). But its too late now. I run across stuff Ive done, tapes laying around here and there. But its the best I can do presently. I did the tunes over and over. I mean, if I wouldve charged for all the studio time, it wouldve been no telling how much! Because you know, you play a tune, then you listen the next day and say why did I play it like that? I need to play it like this. Thats the reason you need a producer. You need somebody to tell you, Thats great, leave it like it is. Or, Thats bad, include that out! (laughs) Im just improvising, to a great extent, so my not liking anything I do kind of creates a production problem.
I think it will be kind of refreshing to hear just you and the guitar.
You want to hear a little of it?
At this point, Chet played me a couple tunes from the album, including Big Foot. If youre a Chet Atkins fan, or even if youre not, do yourself a favor and check out this gentlemans latest effort. At 71, he is still one of the most recognizable players on the planet, right up there with the ranks of Segovia, Reinhardt, Travis and all the many other guitar legends. The difference is hes still putting out albums full of great playing! Dont let what youve heard in the past lull you into thinking youve got this mans style figured out. Chet Atkins is a work in progress, still coming up with new, fresh ideas.
Just a click away. . . Chet Atkins Tribute
Gibson Chet Atkins Guitars
Vintage Guitar magazine
Again, I have some thank yous to extend to the several people who helped make this interview possible. First and foremost to Chet himself for always being so nice and friendly every time we meet. Whether its for an interview, at a gig, or eating in a restaurant, he always makes an effort to come over and say hello. A lot of so-called important people in the music industry could take a valuable lesson from the guy who has become known worldwide as Mr. Guitar when it comes to treating subordinates with respect and dignity. Also, a special thanks to Alan Greenwood for the idea of an annual interview. To Clarissa Cater for her diligent effort in coordinating this and other meetings and for working me into a very busy schedule. To Paul Yandell and Pat Bergeson for their insight and suggestions. Also to Ron Worrell, Jack Pearson and Randy Layne for suggesting questions to ask the greatest guitar legend alive today.
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